Over the course of the last two years, I’ve had the privilege of getting to know up-and-coming writer/director, Sean Patrick McCarthy. After attending Brown University as an undergrad, Sean traveled and worked abroad as a dancer and choreographer for a few years, then finally returned to the United States to settle in New York and attend Columbia University’s prestigious graduate program in filmmaking. Since earning his Master of Fine Arts degree, Sean has become an increasingly prominent presence on the film festival circuit, already having been honored at the Telluride Film Festival as a ‘Filmmaker of Tomorrow’ and winning the Graduate Film Award at the Hamptons International Film Festival in 2000 for his short, "Prom Queen
." In 2006, McCarthy won the Emerging Narrative Screenplay Award at the IFP Market for his feature-length script,
Pansy; the next year he garnered attention at the Market for his script,
Muhammad and Mary, taking away the Panasonic Digital Filmmaking Grant
. Last month, Sean and I met up in the West Village for his very first interview.
[Karen Wang] It wasn’t until a recent conversation I had with you that I first learned you were a dancer. How did you come to transition from the world of dance into filmmaking?

[Sean Patrick McCarthy] A lot of pot. (laughing) No, actually when I was doing dance, I was doing a lot of choreography. When I was dancing it was about people looking at me and trying to find an expression, or a vocabulary that would communicate—sort of like how
Martha Graham came up with a whole movement vocabulary; but, when I was dancing, my choreography was much more about moving the dancers within the frame of the stage and telling stories.
Did you work in dance professionally?I was in a couple of dance companies. I was in Berlin and London. I received formal training at London Contemporary, doing a choreography program. A lot of what I was developing there were narratives, more like dance-theater. And I became frustrated with the frame of the stage. I realized I was always drawing all these sets… it’s really all about moving the actors through these sets, but it was becoming increasingly difficult to create these narratives within such restricted parameters. So after I got injured—I hurt my back—I moved to New York and took a film class at
SVA and started making experimental films. They were more sort of dance films. (laughing) My first film was called, "Alas, a Silent Scream."
Oh, my God. Wow. You have to talk about that one.
(still laughing) I had written the title in shaving cream on my bathroom wall in the shower, and I’ll never forget the opening sequence on Super 8 black and white: watching the title… drip… away. And the piece was a narrative, but it was a dance film, a sort of ballet. I played a disabled man who couldn’t stop eating junk food and became sick. Oh, and I was nude.
Alas…… a silent scream! (laughing) Whatever. It was totally ridiculous, and when I showed it to my film class they all I thought I was a freak. It was very graphic in terms of my body parts. I was kind of working through
Mapplethorpe. So, then I realized I wanted to develop stories, and I went to
Columbia, because they had such a strong writing program.
What was your experience at Columbia like?I loved it. I grew so much when I was there. I was working through my father’s death at the time and I was in psychoanalysis three times a week, doing really intensive work in terms of trying to understand psychology and people in general. That was the thing that I took away the most. There was this acting teacher there, Lenore Dekoven, and her approach is very much about getting to the bones of the psychology and sort of finding the person based on the actions that they take and their history. That was really perfect for me, because at the time I was really trying to understand myself.
There’s always this debate over whether or not film school is a good idea; or should people just learn their craft out in the field? Do you have any opinion on the subject?
What I got out of film school is that it’s just like a conservatory. It gives you the opportunity to focus intensively on your work, and it’s what you make of it. I mean there are people who go to film school, show up for class, and don’t have material. And then there are other people who have made a completely life-changing decision to go to film school and take that risk. It’s a
huge investment.
Which is one of the reasons why there are some people who actually warn against film school; they argue that financially, the investment just isn’t worth it.
All of my friends from Columbia with whom I’m still in touch would definitely do it again. They loved it. You could be Quentin Tarantino, and your whole understanding of film language could be learned and developed by working in a video store (although video stores no longer really exist). But, he’s an exceptional case.
Looking at the field, both Hollywood and the world of independent film, is there anyone’s work in particular that you admire, respect, or that inspires you?
I love
Ira Sachs. I’m still processing his new film,
Married Life, but his first two films were exactly the kind of films that I like. Most of the films that I’m excited by are either European or Asian. Not many American films. Although I loved
Me and You and Everyone We Know. I thought it was unique and had a fresh perspective.
Had you always felt an attraction to film as an expressive medium? And when did you realize that film was something you wanted to devote your life to?
I don’t have a devotion to film. I’m committed to people and storytelling as an opportunity for change. I finally feel like I’m getting to a point in my writing and filmmaking where I can envision change. Up until this point I had been writing how things are or were; and now I’m beginning to articulate the way that I would hope things could be. I’m working on a script (
Muhammad and Mary) that has a happy ending for the first time. It’s bittersweet. It’s a love story. And the woman is old. She’s 81, and she falls in love with a man with a terminal illness; but they cherish every day, and they get to the point where they accept the card that they’ve been dealt. They find a way to make it work for them by shifting their perspectives so that they’re not just being defined by their age or their illness. They’re finding a way to find hope in a situation that would otherwise be very bleak. And
that for me makes me feel like [filmmaking] is really what I want to be doing.
How would you qualify the work you produced prior to this?
Definitely more tragic, but I feel like tragedies can be really inspiring, too. Like the film
4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days, by Romanian director
Cristian Mungiu: it’s a very particular kind of filmmaking—very drip-down, very verite, and definitely just telling it like it is (or the way it was in Romania 20 years ago). Even though it’s so dark, at the end I feel liberated, because I feel like I’ve seen something that’s truthful. And because I’m able to look at that and understand that, it means that it’s possible for us to move beyond it.
What was your experience as a filmmaker like after you graduated from Columbia?
I had a fairy tale story that did not have a happy ending. After my short film, "Prom Queen," screened at a festival with
Hedwig and the Angry Inch, this producer came up to me. I don’t want to mention any names, but he’s a well-known producer who had made a series of indie hits. It was sort of around that time when the crossover was beginning to happen, where indie films were getting mainstream recognition. Anyway, I’ll never forget it: he came up to me after seeing my film and said, “You have a unique voice. You’re very talented. I want to develop a relationship with you and produce your first feature.” This was 2 months out of film school! And I thought, “Oh, my God! This is fantastic!” In any case, we did develop a relationship over the course of a year and a half. He read a script that I was working on and submitted it to the IFP. It didn’t get in. Eventually, it all fell apart because of money. He wasn’t willing to produce it for less than $5 million, because he wanted to do bigger and bigger movies. And I wasn’t established as a director. I didn’t have the tools to present the project nearly enough to raise the $5 million, and he wasn’t willing to present the project to people, because he basically felt that it wasn’t ready. In hindsight, I think he was probably right. It’s difficult in this industry, because it feels like you’re constantly dating: you meet people and you have a great connection; but then getting to the point where you’re going to have a commitment is hard.
Have you seen your own body of work maturing? How does your creative process work? Has it changed over the years?
I’m still using the same tools I learned in my screenwriting class at Columbia with
Janet Roach. She was very clear in her methodology. It’s taken me ten years to really feel like I’ve internalized that method and made it my own when I’m developing a script. It doesn’t mean that the product is always going to be stellar, but at this point I’ve written 14 scripts, and through that, each script has had something I’ve been able to incorporate into my later work. Like sketching. Also, I’ll never forget two quotes that Janet Roach said. The first was a quote she wrote on the board the first day of class: “Hollywood is a blood-sport.” The other is—and I’ve seen her talk about acting the same way—she said that in writing, you sort of need to slit your wrists and bleed onto the keyboard. That really resonated for me. The hard part is how do you bleed onto the keyboard and still be funny! And not be self-indulgent. You have to sort of indulge yourself and trust your instinct and go where you need to go as a writer, but at a certain point, it’s not about you.
Well, clearly it’s paid off because for the past 2 years in a row, your scripts have gotten into the IFP Market and won major prizes. Thinking back on those experiences at IFP, how did one year compare with the next? Were they very different?Oh, definitely. The first year out, I still felt like I was very green, very young. I was still sort of ambivalent about talking to people about [
Pansy]. The project was very provocative. It was about a very lonely, gay teenager at a Catholic school, and he has nobody. He’s very isolated. And then he meets this older guy online who becomes his confidante, which then leads things to spiral out of control
This was based on a true story?Yes. It was sort of a sensational media story. I saw it on
20/20 with Barbara Walters, and that’s what sparked my interest. The script deals with issues of depression and how gay kids are so isolated, they’re vulnerable to people online who can take advantage of them. That’s a very controversial issue, because there are radicals in the gay community who would say that there’s this whole tradition of man-boy relationships. I don’t necessarily agree with them, but I understand what they are saying, that there are many people in the gay community who have had very positive experiences, because as youths, they were able to find someone who could give them love and acceptance. The problem is that when you already feel intense self-loathing because you’ve been brought up in a culture that tells you you’re evil, and then there’s the shame of having this secret with an older person, and then there’s the power dynamic with this older person… it just becomes this total powder keg.
Do you think it was the subject material and how close you were to it that made you more guarded at IFP the first year?I think so. I wasn’t really in sales mode. I just did not want to present it as something that was a commodity. I kind of kept my guard up because most people were disinclined to want to explore the topic. I haven’t gotten the money to make the project, but I think that when I do, people will be interested. It’s very human and deals with things that—if you can get beyond some of the hot button topics that it presents—then you’re left with the compelling issue of how society is dealing with these kids who are killing people. And kids who are highly sexualized at a very young age. A Catholic church that is teaching people to hate themselves. I mean, not always. There are some individuals within the Church that speak out for love and not judgment; but I just wish there were more of them. I mean it’s all about judgment! I think we need to take back Jesus! Because Jesus was a liberal and a radical! And He was all about love! And if he was here today, then he would want to see
Pansy! (laughing)
Jesus would endorse Pansy! We have a quote!Well, he would have understood that this kid just needed love, and there was nobody! Everybody was so freaked out because this kid was so out of control, and there was no one except for this 41-year-old man, whom everyone wrote off as a pedophile. Whether what he did was right or wrong, he was the only one who was making this kid feel like a worthy human being and worthy of love. And that’s so sad! I mean they failed this kid miserably. Everybody in the community: the courts, mental health professionals, schools, his parents—everyone! I only wish that when I was presenting this at the Market, I had been able to talk about it like we’re talking now. I was still very close to it. The project was my baby; and I just didn’t feel like I could step back from it because I was still kind of nursing it almost. Whereas now I could be much more upfront, direct, and say this is why people are going to want to see this movie. This movie has something to say that’s topical, that needs to be heard. I think I was more able to do that with
Muhammad and Mary. People were much more receptive this time, because I was being very direct and telling them boldly what I had envisioned.
The thing that strikes me about your work is if you look at both Pansy and Muhammad and Mary, they’re about characters who exist or live on the fringes of society. Is that a common theme in your work?Oh, definitely. Across the board.
What is it exactly about that sort of situation or positing of characters on the fringes that attracts you? What do you feel you gain from writing about these types of characters and stories?I think dramatically, it’s just a satisfying premise. I think we all want acceptance; and it just creates a better structure if you write about somebody who’s on the outside. Their

need is very immediate. Personally, I’ve always identified with people who were on the outside. The outsider for me was always this symbol of hope and possibility, the ability to transcend. It’s also because when I was growing up, my family was extremely racist. I remember when I was a little boy, I was fascinated with the sitcom,
Good Times. My father forbade me to watch it, because he didn’t want images of African Americans entering his house—which of course made me want them even more! Here we were in this suburban, upper-crust house-- miserable; but those characters on the show loved each other. So that’s what I took away from it. I think that these days, for younger people, race is complicated but it’s a little more blurred in terms of where divisions of culture lie.
On one level, it may seem that younger generations are better informed or perhaps better equipped to process racist caricatures; but on another level, when you take a closer look, you realize how illusory this impression really is. For example, many would cite the show Grey’s Anatomy for having a multicultural cast and for promoting minority representation. But, no one ever talks about how they’re an exceptional case, and how holding them up as an example of progressiveness only masks what little progress we’ve actually made.No, we really haven’t. In fact, one of the things that shocked me was when I met with the production company
Big Pita, Little Pita at IFP. It was started by Alicia Keys and her manager, and they have a first look deal with Disney. They basically said that
Muhammad and Mary sounded really interesting, but that it wouldn’t be a Disney project because they wouldn’t make a movie about a couple that was mixed. In fact, they were also developing a family drama series for television, but told me point blank that the people at Disney wouldn’t do the series because it had a biracial couple. Which is shocking! That we live in a country where decisions are made because people are racist and they don’t want to see a
family. I mean come on.
Do you feel now, having participated in IFP two years in a row, that there is a growing sense of latitude in terms of more provocative topics and traditionally underrepresented types of characters and stories becoming more acceptable, or at the very least easier to produce?Definitely. Although, I think it’s really a question of having strong material. It’s not enough just to write a story about someone who’s in an underrepresented group. It’s got to be a good story. People will watch a good story. I don’t think people are afraid to see something new. I would argue that’s what would make these underrepresented stories have larger market potential. I’ve read scripts that were not going to a deeper level, and they ended up becoming regurgitated stuff that we’ve seen before. I don’t know. My new script is about a transsexual cleaning lady based on this cleaning lady that I had as a kid. I have a friend who’s a transsexual actress, and I think it’ll be a wonderful part for her. I hope that people will watch it. I don’t know. Maybe they won’t. Maybe they’ll be freaked out. I have to find a way so that they identify with her, that they care about her. I mean look at
Boys Don’t Cry. I feel very hopeful.
Do you feel that filmmakers like yourself, who challenge audiences by presenting unorthodox characters and stories, need to pitch or spin their projects differently? What do you say to producers and industry execs who counter with, “Oh, no one’s going to want to see that”?I think if you can be clear, then people will buy it. It’s all about just finding the truth in the story that will resonate with audiences. It’s really about presenting the characters within a context or structure that will engage audiences. Really, I don’t have the answer. All you can do is just present your passion, and most importantly, you just have to keep working. That’s the thing:
you have to keep working.